Introduction

I interviewed Andre Saunders recently on Zoom. It was a lovely conversation and very free form. I had sent questions ahead of time, but when I asked if he had seen them, he said he took a brief look but that he generally doesn’t. “I don’t mind answering on the spot, or the element of surprise. I like to speak from my heart, so I didn’t want to pre-think about it too much.”

Such a good way to begin a conversation. Talking about spontaneity and heart.

Andre is a music artist and a poet. He’s the Poet in Residence for Writers Matter, a non-profit that mentors teens and children, helping them express themselves in innovative ways. Andre also has a column on The Local called “Spotlight Sessions,” in which he interviews creative people in Philadelphia about their journeys. Wearing his other hat, he is a rapper and works with producers and sound engineers. You can listen to his music and his new album “Better Late Than Never,” at Spotify.

Our conversation has been edited for clarity and length.

Roberta Fallon: Tell me about the way you write.

Andre Saunders: Yeah. My writing process is unique, it varies based on the creative situation. I don’t say I’m gonna sit down and write, like, my writing for poetry and music is different. Mm-hmm. If I’m doing music, I don’t write music until I get to the studio and then I base it on how the music makes me feel and create based on a production. And then for poetry, like a line or something will pop in my head and I’ll write it down and then I’ll write from there. But I never sit down and intend to write or pre-write things.

Roberta: So tell me more about the music. You go into the studio, and do you write the music or where does the music come from? Because you have these, I listened to your new album a little bit and it’s very rhythmic and beautiful.The music is beautiful.

Andre: Thank you. I appreciate it. So when I’m creating, well, my process has kind of changed over the years. When I was younger, I would pre-write my stuff, being I used to pay for studio time and stuff like that. So it was like you were on a time clock. So I would go with my beats already and then my raps already, but as I got a little older and started having more resources, I was working with people who, it wasn’t time constraints on things.

So we would freely just record. So most of the times my beats are getting made on the spot as well. Versus people just sending me beats. So I’m basing it off how the music makes me feel.

Sometimes I may have an idea in my mind, sometimes a producer may play a beat that they think I’ll like. It sometimes goes by how the moment presents itself.

My ideas are based on how the music makes me feel versus something that’s already programmed into, like, Hey, I’m gonna do a song about this. It’s like, however I feel is what I make my music about. Now sometimes I may have an idea in my head where I tell him – one of my producers – to make a beat that sounds like this.

Or this is the vibe I’m thinking, or let’s do something like this. But most times it’s like, how do I feel today? Or what do I feel like creating?

Roberta: That’s amazing. I can’t imagine many people do that. I think there are more people in the world that are sort of writing outlines of what they think they’re gonna do than those that go in and respond to something and then…it’s writing sort of from the brain out straight to the mouth.

Andre: And even for example, like my writing style is very spontaneous as well. Sometimes if I’m in the studio and the engineer or person is as fast as I am, I won’t write at all. I’ll just record. So if the music is ready I’ll piece lines together.

So I’ll basically record maybe three lines here, four lines here, and I’ll kind of organize it in my head and just write it that way. So it’s like a straight recording process. Then it’ll play it back and see if I wanna change it or if I like that. Then sometimes I may just write notes in my phone as the music is playing, stuff like that.

So my process, honestly, is very how I feel in that moment. What’s the vibe like?

Roberta: Organic. How did you meet your producers, your engineers, your people in the studio? Are they local people? I assume they are.

Andre: Yes. Most of the people I work with are local. So my most recent project. One person produced that entire project.

I met them because they were fan of my music and wanted to do some work together. I went and did a song for them, a few songs for them. Then we kind of built a connection to where we ended up working more together. We eventually ended up doing that project.

Then my two projects before that, a different person produced, and engineered. I’m more of a vibe person, so if I connect with someone, I like working with one person as opposed to a bunch of random people.

Like my earlier days I had to do it that way just due to lack of resources. But the space I’m in now is like I’m more connection-based.

Roberta: Has anything ever surprised you coming out of your music working that way? I mean, did you ever get surprised by something you made?

Andre: Yeah. In a sense of like, the reason why I even continued to do this process is because it’s like an element of freedom.

It makes me more creative in a sense, because when I used to pre-write stuff it was good, but I just think my mind is much more creative without those boundaries. Or you may think of something in a moment of inspiration that you wouldn’t have thought of.

Like, I always tell people. My atmosphere also dictates what I do and what I say. I’ll give you an example. I went to a poetry workshop recently and they had some writing prompts and exercises and I did those prompts and the poems turned out really good and people liked them.

My thoughts were inspired by that room I was in. If I was in my own space by myself, my mind would’ve never gone to that place. So my environment shifts my process.

Roberta: Oh, I hear that. Yeah. Why did you go to the poetry writing workshop? You are a poet.

Andre: So they have this series that they were doing “Healing Verses,” “Germantown Healing Verses.”

And they were doing workshops around the city. To support people who’ve experienced gun violence and just other things like that. And I just went and wanted to check it out the first time and the workshop was cool. So I went back maybe like two or three times and I ended up being featured as well.

But I haven’t done something like that in a while, so I just thought it would be pretty cool. And I was getting back more into the poetry atmosphere versus the music. So I just wanted to be around some more poetry based things.

Roberta: “Healing Verses,” Oh, I know that project. It’s the city project – Creative Philadelphia project.

Andre: Yes. Yes. Yolanda Wisher and Trapeta Mason

Andre: Funny story. Yolanda was actually my coach when I was much younger, when I was a part of Germantown Poetry Group as a kid.

Roberta: That’s so interesting. Wonderful. Yeah. I love that there’s such a big poetry community here.

Andre: Yeah. For a while I kind of was more into the music, so I had kind of lost track of a lot of the poetry-based things in the city. But more recently, I’ve been getting re-acclimated.

Roberta: Feeds your head. So. The Better Late Than Never album. How did you come up with that name? Is there a time element? When you say better late than never, that means we have to do it now. Was that sort of the message?

Andre: Yes. So, I know in this era that we live in, people put out music rapidly, and that’s never been my process because I do so many other things outside of music.

And I like to work when I’m inspired versus just throwing stuff out there. So I’ll record a lot of music, but I like the process of making projects versus just throwing a bunch of songs out all the time. So the title “Better Late Than Never” came because people were always asking me for new music, or what’s taking so long, and it was getting around to that time of – normally I’ll put a project out maybe like every two years around that window.

So it was getting close to that time. Usually my titles help me shape the idea and sound of the project. So I felt like it was better late than never. It’s a good time.

Roberta: You have your fans and they actually pushed you to do this, in a way.

Andre: Yes, in a way.

Roberta: How long have you been a poet? Were you inspired with words as a child? Did you come from people who were poets and thinkers and writers and musicians?

Andre: No, not initially. When I was in middle school, actually elementary school, I didn’t like writing much.

My teachers always laugh at me now. I always listened to music a lot. Then I started playing around just rapping for fun. One of my teachers, I always tell this story. He kinda introduced me to a few rappers that were more like poetic and lyrical rappers. And I’m very competitive, so I had a drive to want to be the best.

So just wanting to impress him and other people that I was around, it just kept motivating me to wanna continue to do it. And be great at it.

Roberta: I love that you turned your competition into something so personally fulfilling.

Andre: Yeah. It started as me doing the cliche raps lying in my raps and just saying stuff that sounded good.

But around the time when I joined my poetry group, that is when I started to focus more on substance and personalizing my stuff and sharing more about myself. Versus just those cliche wraps.

Roberta: That’s hard to do. I mean, a lot of people cover the personal up with the cliche raps and can make a lot of money from that. But to get personal, it’s a different audience I would imagine.

Andre: I think that made me stand out in a sense. ’cause at the time many people weren’t doing that. And I always say this, we all have flaws, it’s just some people hide them. So for me it was like, I knew people probably could relate to some of the things and experiences I’ve been through.

So when I tried it and it worked I saw how impactful it was, so I just stuck with it.

Roberta: I know you are very, very busy with your studio practice with music, but you also have a big job – job for Writers Matter. Can you talk about that a little bit?

I had not heard about Writers Matter before. I’ve heard of Mighty Writers. Have you heard of them?

Andre: Okay. Yeah. They actually just did a partnership with my program. A collaboration.

Roberta: That makes a lot of sense. So talk about Writers Matter. It sounds like a different kind of program than Mighty Writers..

Andre: Yeah. So it’s a nonprofit organization that works with many schools in the city and neighboring places. I’m the resident poet. I do assembly programs, workshops, afterschool programs, etc. I do classroom sessions. Basically, I teach creative writing, but even deeper than that sometimes I just want to give the kids a platform to express whatever’s on their mind or in their heart in a non-judgmental way and just offering them that safe space to share whatever their thoughts are and just try to be an inspiration and motivation to them. So we try to be that space for them to get those things off.

Roberta: What age group do you work with? Does it vary? You go to various schools?

Andre: So it’s, it’s from elementary to high school.

Roberta: Wow. Like really the little kids in first grade?

Andre: We’ve done younger programs, but I think we try to start it around like third and up.

Roberta: Yeah. Oh, I think third grade, eight years old. Eight years old is a good age. So third grade, I think they’re ready to express themselves. They’re not teenagers yet, so they don’t have that self-consciousness. But they have lots of opinions.

Andre: Yeah. And I always try to just meet them on their level. It’s like going back to the process I mentioned with my music. I’ll have an idea in my head for how I want to do my layouts or what works, but a lot of times it’s about being able to adjust to their needs.

Roberta: How long have you been doing this?

Andre: I’ve been doing this program for maybe five, six years now.

Roberta: All right, so that brings up the sort of life-work balance question. Mm-hmm. It’s really hard. And teaching – I know I’ve done a little bit of teaching – It’s exhausting. It pulls a lot out of you. If you give a lot, and it sounds like you give a tremendous amount. So how do you juggle your studio time, your poetry time, and your teaching time? Do you have a relaxation valve anywhere? Do you play basketball? Do you run? Dance?

Andre: I do. I do things to keep my mind sharp.

The good part about it is I actually love doing those things. So it doesn’t feel like work, which helps a lot. But I definitely make sure I do things to take care of my mind and my spirit and just to keep my peace and balance. I’m a regular person like everyone else, so of course I watch sports, I’m a huge basketball fan.

I listen to music, spend time with people. I like great conversation. But I guess it just honestly leads back to me doing what I love. So it doesn’t feel stressful. Like of course sometimes it’s busy or it can be overwhelming ’cause I handle a lot. But when I’m in those spaces, it’s like my sanctuary.

Like when I’m recording music, that’s my sanctuary. When I’m performing, that’s my sanctuary. It’s not like why do I have to be here?

Roberta: Yeah. I hope not. Talk about performing. Where do you perform?

Andre: I’ve performed all over the city and outside of the city. I’ve had the blessing of being able to travel and do my art as well.

So I’m just grateful for all of the opportunities I’ve been given.

Roberta: All right, so what do you think? Let’s say you’re talking to the high schoolers and they’re all thinking about their future, maybe they’re seniors, juniors, freshmen, whatever they are, but they’re eager, itching to know what’s next for them. Do you have words that you give them to sort of expand what they might be capable of doing or how? How do you approach that? If someone comes up to you and says, What should I do? What can I do? Can I make it in this field, et cetera.

Andre: Yeah. It varies based on the situation.

But definitely I always say what’s next is what you make next, in a sense. It’s like sometimes we don’t always have it figured out or things also change and sometimes I think we have this illusion of what we perceive or what we hear of how things are supposed to go. When I was younger I didn’t know that I could do a lot of the things I’m doing now.

Just because I was like, Hey, being a rapper just means I just want to rap and perform and stuff. But I later realized all the other opportunities I could get from learning business and leveraging my music and poetry. So doing the things like my program, being a part of the newspaper or just so many other business opportunities that I’ve been afforded through my music, that continues to make me want to push and do more and learn what else I like to do and keep growing.

It doesn’t only stop at music and poetry for me. I’m just into evolving, evolution, so I always want to see how far I can take it and figure out what else makes me happy. And what other doors can my music get me in, like I’m big on giving back. So even using my music to be able to do things like that is all a part of what makes me happy. So for me, it’s not just only about music. That’s just the key to get me in the door to be able to do more.

Roberta: I love your openness to evolution. Is there anything that the kids have taught you through the years, anything you picked up from them that was surprising?

Andre: I’m always open and conscious of it’s not about me, it’s about them. So I listen to the stories. I remember a teacher was like, I don’t know what it is that you do but they feel so comfortable talking to you and you always have a great response to give them back.

And it’s because – and not saying other people don’t – but I listen. Like I said earlier, I try to adjust to their needs while also just being myself. So it’s like, say if I’m having a conversation with you and another person, you may need to hear it one way and they may need to hear it another way, even if it’s the same message.

But I’ve definitely learned a lot of lessons. It teaches me patience, understanding. And I don’t think learning is about age, I think we can all learn from each other. Especially in this world.

It moves so fast. They have access to things we didn’t have at that time. And they’re around certain things that we probably weren’t around. So it’s like a give and take relationship.

Roberta: I love that. Speaking of fast moving times, are you optimistic, I think from your basis of openness and evolution, I pick up a positivism from you. Are you optimistic?

Andre: I’m very optimistic.

Roberta: Okay. And what makes you optimistic in particular?

Andre: Just seeing the results of the things I believe in. Like me and my DJ, we always have this thing where sometimes when we do something big, we’ll have these conversations and we set goals that are realistic.

I feel like when you do that and you actually work hard at it, it’s possible. Like I’m not setting these unrealistic goals. I’ve had to do a lot of work myself to put myself in these positions.

Nobody just gave me things. So I don’t mind working for it. I feel like when you have that determination like, Hey, I want to do this. What does it take to do this? And then you make active steps and you see that it’s tangible. It inspires you to keep doing it. So for me, I try to, if I feel something or I have an idea of something I want to do, I’ll be like, okay, what does this take to get this done?

What would I need to do? And just from experience, I’ve been fortunate enough to accomplish a lot of those things. So it makes me optimistic that I can get it done. And I don’t really care about what other people think about it or I’m not waiting on other people to do it. For me, it’s like I’ve become self-sufficient in my beliefs and…

Roberta: And your actions too.

Andre: Yes. Manifesting things. And actually doing the work to make it happen. I work very hard. People don’t see the behind the scenes. They just see the results. I’m not a big social media person, so I dont always show everything, but I work hard to do the things I do.

Roberta: No doubt. I believe it. Let’s talk about working for the paper. I love that you have the “Spotlight Sessions” at The Local. And I love the story of how that started. So they featured you?

Andre: Yes, that’s how it started.

Roberta: And, and then you approached them, if I understand the story, and they said Yes?
And so now you have a column in the newspaper?

Andre: So they featured me and during the process liked the way our collaboration went so they presented the partnership. They did an article about an event I curated in Austin, Texas, for South by Southwest.

I’m always kind of hands on about that stuff just ’cause I’m particular about wording and making sure my message is conveyed the way I want it. So I’m very big on a collaboration process with that. And she was open to it or they were open to it and then they were like, Hey, we love how this turned out. We would love to do more together if you’re interested. And I was like, yeah, let’s try it. I have some cool ideas. I know a lot of people. And it’s something that I could see myself loving, so I was like, let’s try it.

Roberta: And how do you pick the people to interview? “Spotlight Sessions” is an interview series, it’s interviews with creative people who are making music or other things.

Andre: So I pick my guest based on if I personally have a connection to it. So I’m not necessarily always trying to get the most popular person or the most cliche things. It has to be something that I feel grounded in where I can relate to it. I have to be inspired to want to have the conversation with you.

So that way there’s the foundation of interest. So when I’m doing my interviews, I can genuinely connect with you and it’s not like I’m forced to do this interview. So I have to have that personal connection to it.

Roberta: That’s a great way to work. And your pieces, what’s in the newspaper in The Local, they’re very conversational. They sort of ramble, which is, I think the best way to have a conversation – just follow the flow. And you do that. So you have selected wisely, I guess.

Andre: Yeah, definitely, I’m very particular with the guests I pick, and many of them I know or have a relationship with, which makes it a little easier and they trust me.

So that helps. And then of course, like I don’t want to just get lucky with it, so I go and do my research as well and put my time into making sure it’s up to a certain standard. But it goes to that foundation of genuine interests.

Roberta: I love the trust aspect that you bring up.

That’s really urgently needed when you talk to someone, especially when you’re putting it out in public, there’s gotta be a level of trust there.

Andre: It’s very important to me because I’ve been featured in things where a slight word could alter a lot. Or sometimes people put what their perspective of what you said is, versus what you are or meant. So for all of the people I interview, that’s one thing I’m very, very conscious of making sure they’re completely comfortable and satisfied, and I’m getting that message out the way that they meant it to be versus me taking their message and making it what I may perceive it as.

Roberta: Yeah, totally. I believe in that too. Artblog started a podcast interview series in 2010. And we’ve been doing interviews since then. And the basis for our interviews is trust. They have to trust us, we have to trust them, and it makes for a great conversation and it makes for good content. Great content

Andre: People can feel when something is genuine and authentic versus when it’s not. So that’s been one of the compliments I’ve received about my articles is that people can feel that authenticity.

Roberta: One last question I want to ask, and that is in your interviews, you seem to get to a point where you’re talking about spirituality and a spiritual practice. And so I wonder if you could mention something about that. Do you have a spiritual practice? Are you, do you go to church, do you do other things? Do you, whatever? What’s your spiritual connection?

Andre: Yeah, I’m definitely a spiritual person. Spirituality and religion are in a sense, separate. But can also be together. So I definitely pray a lot. Do the things I need to do. I have my relationship with God but I don’t force my thoughts or beliefs on anyone, and I’m open to everyone’s thoughts and beliefs. I feel like what works for you works for you. So I have what works for me.

But going back to that spiritual aspect, like I think that is just having your soul intact, being balanced, being grounded, having that faith, having that optimism. Faith is believing without always seeing so that’s a big reason for my optimism.

I know the things that I’ve experienced in my life and I know how blessed I am, so I try to always keep those things in mind and just be grateful, thankful, and just continue to live the right way and be righteous as a person. And I feel like it’ll work out.

Roberta: That’s a great note to end on. Let’s end there. On the spirit of optimism and gratefulness and believing without seeing. So anything else you’d like to share? Are there any events on the horizon? Are you performing anywhere locally or even not locally?

Andre: Yeah, so right now I just released my book, which went number one. So..

Roberta: Book, I didn’t know about a book.

Andre: Yeah. It’s called Honest Becoming Me. I actually have an album called Honest, so it plays off of that theme.

It’s basically about how I got started in my creative writing journey, tracking back to being in elementary school and middle school. So it talks about my process, but it’s also an interactive book that allows readers and students to draw their own parallels and do actual exercises within the book.

It’s a pretty cool book, not just saying it because it’s me, but it was designed for a specific goal. So like I said, the book, we ended up reaching the best bestsellers list. It’s doing very well. And starting tomorrow I’ll be doing some book tours around the city at different locations.

We have a few private events coming up, so tomorrow I’ll be at LaSalle doing a presentation around the book.

Roberta: So if I Google up Honest Becoming Me, the book will come up?

Andre: Yes. It’s available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or wherever you get books from.

Roberta: Okay. Is it at Uncle Bobby‘s? Do they have copies?

Andre: I’m actually in the process of trying to set up a book signing with them.

Roberta: Ask them if they can reach out to the Free Library author event series. You should be in there. Are you?

Andre: I have that resource. I actually have a partnership with the Free Library of Philadelphia for my pop-up concert series.

And they’re in the process of getting my book there and they already gave me the green light to do a book signing there.

Roberta: Wonderful.

Andre: It’s a busy time right now.

Roberta: Yeah. Congratulations. I’m really very happy to hear this.

Roberta: Well thank you so much for speaking with me. I really enjoyed our conversation and look forward to seeing this on Artblog.

Andre: Yes, I look forward to seeing it as well. Thank you for taking your time to feature me.

Roberta: Oh, you’re so welcome, and good luck with the book tour. Very exciting.